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m60a3 ?? Was it used in desert storm???
Spades
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Posted: Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 01:08 PM UTC
As the topic says,..it explains it all. Did the marines ever use at all or was it just an export model ????

TANKS !!!! for the help.
mother
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Posted: Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 01:42 PM UTC
Spades,
Yes the Marines did use the M60A1,while the M60's were the older design, they were capable of handling the Iraqi armor, including T72. Many were also fitted with the reactive armor.
HeavyArty
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Posted: Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 01:52 PM UTC
Just to clarify, the M60A3 was not used in ODS. As Joe said, USMC used M60A1s, not M60A3s. M60A3 was a US Army version with improved thermal sight and fire control systems. Had some major differances from the A1 version. Check here to read up on them if confused on versions.

Patton-Mania
Spades
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Posted: Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 02:28 PM UTC
Thanks for the info. Since I was on the M1A1 Heavy in ODS, I did not know if the A3 was in the theatre or if it was the A1 or a combo of both.

Appreciate your help on this one guys.

Tanks again.
Sabot
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Posted: Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 02:59 PM UTC
As stated, the M60A3TTS was a US Army tank into the early 90s and not fielded by the USMC. It did not see service in US hands during Desert Storm, but if you "think outside the box", the M60A3 was used by Saudi Arabia during Desert Storm and did see combat.

The mistaken identity of M60A3 use by the USMC is because the Saudis (M60A3) and the Marines (M60A1) both conducted the assault on Kuwait City. A late model M60A1 looks enough like and M60A3 to the casual observer.

We were getting similar identification errors during OIF when folks not familiar with a USMC M1A1 w/MCD mistakenly identified these as USMC M1A2s.
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Posted: Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 04:18 PM UTC
Along with the Saudis, the Egyptians also used M60A3's during Desert Storm.

Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures
Sabot
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Posted: Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 02:23 AM UTC
I thought they did, but when I checked my references and online, it listed two battalions of M60A1s and the one photo I saw was definitely an A1.
MUMSTER
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Posted: Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 03:45 PM UTC
The M60A3 was used in Desert Storm.
The Marinerís used at least eleven M60A3 that they picked up from the Army after they receive M1A1. The Marinerís used the tanks for thermal capability. They spread the tanks throughout the 1st Tank Battalion (5) the 3rd Tank Battalion (6) and I think the Air Force had M60A3 too.

The mistaken identities of M60A1 used by the USMC and the M60A3 were used by the Saudiís and the Egyptianís. That would be hard to mistake them being that the Marines used reactive armor and the Saudiís and Egyptianís didnít.

C[ ]
HeavyArty
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Posted: Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 03:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The M60A3 was used in Desert Storm.
The Marinerís used at least eleven M60A3 that they picked up from the Army after they receive M1A1. The Marinerís used the tanks for thermal capability. They spread the tanks throughout the 1st Tank Battalion (5) the 3rd Tank Battalion (6) and I think the Air Force had M60A3 too.

The mistaken identities of M60A1 used by the USMC and the M60A3 were used by the Saudiís and the Egyptianís. That would be hard to mistake them being that the Marines used reactive armor and the Saudiís and Egyptianís didnít.

C[ ]



Sorry to dispute you, but USMC did not use M60A3s. Also, USAF doesn't use tanks for anything other than targets. USAF didn't use them either. No M60A3s were used by US Forces in ODS.
MikeMummey
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Posted: Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 04:23 PM UTC
Good evening all. Gino, you cannot dispute the truth brother. It is a little known fact but yes, the M60A3 did see service in ODS in the hands of the USMC as stated by MUMSTER above. All eleven of them. They were picked up in mid Jan, 91 from a US Army unit that had just NETTed(New Equipment Training Team) over to the M1A1. They were a DivCav troop's tanks. It was the one and only period in time that we Marines had our hands on such a nice 60 series "hog" with a laser rangefinder and thermal sights. We found all sorts of creative uses for them. One assigned to 3rd Tanks was even turned into a Stinger missile platform to provide in close cover of the breaching operations we (3rd Tanks) conducted. The USAF had at least a couple of M6A3's with the dozer blade at air bases in Saudi Arabia during DS/DS for airfield defence and runway clearing. They would not give them up either. We tried though. Mid-night requisition procedures next time. Out here.
HeavyArty
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Posted: Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 10:21 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Good evening all. Gino, you cannot dispute the truth brother. It is a little known fact but yes, the M60A3 did see service in ODS in the hands of the USMC as stated by MUMSTER above. All eleven of them. They were picked up in mid Jan, 91 from a US Army unit that had just NETTed(New Equipment Training Team) over to the M1A1. They were a DivCav troop's tanks. It was the one and only period in time that we Marines had our hands on such a nice 60 series "hog" with a laser rangefinder and thermal sights. We found all sorts of creative uses for them. One assigned to 3rd Tanks was even turned into a Stinger missile platform to provide in close cover of the breaching operations we (3rd Tanks) conducted. The USAF had at least a couple of M6A3's with the dozer blade at air bases in Saudi Arabia during DS/DS for airfield defence and runway clearing. They would not give them up either. We tried though. Mid-night requisition procedures next time. Out here.



Mike,
Should have read the name closer and made the connection. Mumster is your bro Ed Mummey. You guys are about the only ones who have ever said/confirmed the one time M60A3s were used by USMC and USAF. Are you sure it wasn't Army troopers manning the USAF tanks. Can't see flyboys being able to effectively use them. "Hey, where's the afterburners??"
Sabot
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Posted: Monday, September 19, 2005 - 01:16 AM UTC
I thought one of the Div Cav units brought A3s into theater, I just didn't know the Marines took them into battle. I was aware of the USAF using them for air base defense, but I'm pretty sure those didn't see combat.


Quoted Text

The mistaken identities of M60A1 used by the USMC and the M60A3 were used by the Saudiís and the Egyptianís. That would be hard to mistake them being that the Marines used reactive armor and the Saudiís and Egyptianís didnít.



Hard for people with knowledge about tanks, but easy for others, hence the term "casual observer". There are several pictures in Verlinden's Warmachines that identify M60A1s as M60A3s and vice versa (for example). These are reference books compiled by "experts".

Normally it is the gun tube or crosswind sensor that gives it away as being a non-ERA armored A1 or A3.
MikeMummey
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Posted: Monday, September 19, 2005 - 03:26 AM UTC
Good morning all. The unit from Georgia that we picked up the M60A3s from had a patch that was a rifle bullet with what looked like teeth going down each side. The tanks were in the standard three color NATOflauge with sand patch bumper numbers and did not recieve reactive armor before crossing LD. They did get a heavy dose of sandbags though. Not all the Fire Control Systems were 100%. The one that was in my company pulling the TAB(Towed Asault Bridge) had the laser, thermals and GPS inop. So they did not have the birdcage(crosswind sensor) in place either. The M105D telescope worked just fine though. I know that the AF tanks stayed in Saudi Arabia. Hey, that guy Mumster has the same last name as me. Cool. Out here.
Sabot
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Posted: Monday, September 19, 2005 - 03:33 AM UTC
Sounds like the old 197th Separate Infantry Brigade that was out of Ft. Stewart, GA. They became the 3rd Brigade of the 24th Infantry (later 3rd Infantry) Division.
HeavyArty
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Posted: Monday, September 19, 2005 - 03:36 AM UTC
Yup, 197th SIB. Rob beat me to it, here is their patch.
MikeMummey
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Posted: Monday, September 19, 2005 - 01:00 PM UTC
Well "tanks " Robin and Gino for clearing that unit ID up and showing those patch pics. I always called that unit the "Bite the Bullet" Brigade. Never knew the number designation. I ended up instructing at AOBC 95-98 and served with some of the Soldiers who had crewed those very tanks in 1990. The planet just got smaller again. Out here.
Spades
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Posted: Monday, September 19, 2005 - 01:43 PM UTC
Wow, new information never known about the M60A3, glad to have brought up this subject.
MikeMummey
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Posted: Monday, September 19, 2005 - 01:48 PM UTC
Aw, you could have waited for my tell all book. Out here.
Tankrider
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Posted: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 05:39 AM UTC
Rob,
It was actually the Seperate Cav Troop's, D/4 Cav, 197th SIB M60A3s that the USMC grabbed up. The troop later became C Troop, 2-4 Cav the 3-7 once the 24th swapped over to the 3d Division. How is DPTM doing??? If you get a chance, tell the Knox CofS thatI said hello.

John
MikeMummey
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Posted: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 06:00 AM UTC
Howdy John. Sounds like those boys might have received their mail late quite a bit with all the alpha numeric addresss changes. "Tanks" for nailing down the unit ID even more. Out here.
Sabot
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Posted: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 06:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Rob,
It was actually the Seperate Cav Troop's, D/4 Cav, 197th SIB M60A3s that the USMC grabbed up. The troop later became C Troop, 2-4 Cav the 3-7 once the 24th swapped over to the 3d Division. How is DPTM doing??? If you get a chance, tell the Knox CofS thatI said hello.

John

Good to hear from you. I'm the last officer left at DPTMS and there are only two other soldiers. The entire G3 shop went through a military to civilian conversion (M2C2). The G3 is still supposed to be an 06, but ours got deployed and the GS-13 (ret. LTC) is the acting G3. A promotable LTC is inbound to become the new G3, unsure of the name off hand. In the meantime I've been handed every field grade duty that comes along.
blaster76
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Posted: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 10:35 AM UTC


When I was at KNox, there were more O-6's than you could shake a stick at. 3 at the Hospital alone (my dad was an MD)
Tankrider
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Posted: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 12:44 AM UTC
Rob,
I feel for you... I was there in 00 to 02 and it was heading that way back then. I was embarrased about how crappy the Home of Cavalry & Armor looked. Kinda like downtown Tikrit looks now... Well, I woudl suppose that you have a direct connection into the Patton Museum now. Any new items since the FT-18s from A-stan??? Take care and don't let them pin all of the tasks on you.
John
Jacques
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Posted: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 01:53 AM UTC
Not really taking a political shot here, but with all this military to civilian stuff soon it will be Ft. Haliburton.

I for one am not too happy with the change, as it means more potential security leaks and civilians do not play by the same rules, even if they are told to. At least soldiers fall under the UCMJ...that and if a soldier gets too lax, you can jerk him up short. Not so much with the civilian side....maybe full-time is different?

When I was at Knox in March things looked decent enough...typical army base. What did it look like before...streets paved in gold? :-)